5465. [I was] looking to the east in a certain desert place which ended in a wood, where, also, some were wandering about. These drove certain ones into the proprium, and led them to self; and, amongst them, were some known to me in the world. But by reason of the fact that they were set over others - for they were without rulers - they, therefore, infested one another dreadfully; as happens where there is no magistrate and no order, or no government. I was conveyed to this place; and it was found that those there were such as had no fear of God nor regard for man, so that they cared for no one; this is how it was that they acted in such ways from the hells. The majority of them were of the common people, who, nevertheless, have thought craftily and wickedly within themselves in the world. Visitation was then made upon them; and, when it was proved that they were of such a character, those were taken from them, who, by the arts of phantasy and magic, brought them thither; and there was opened, in the middle region, a great cavern which reached into the depth; and into this were cast all who were there, and all those who were in the woods were also sought out, and cast thither likewise. There were, moreover, many who appeared upon a higher place at the end of the wood, who were such as knew something about God. Those who were yet like the rest, were also cast into the same cavern. It should be known that all such are conducted together to the same place - this is usual in the other life - thus, those who were such [were conducted] to the tract in that part, and into the woods. Those who were in that tract, knew how to hide themselves in certain subterranean vaults; also, those who were in the woods; but they were got out of them.